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LARRY KING:
Tonight a rare, live interview with Gordon B. Hinckley, president of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Next on Larry King Live.

He's one of the distinguished religious leaders in the world. It's an honor to have him as our guest tonight for the full hour and later we'll be including your phone calls. He's Gordon Hinckley. Gordon B. Hinckley is President of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, commonly known as the Mormons. He is 88 years old.

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
Correct.

LARRY KING:
Do you think like retiring?

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
Oh no, there's no chance. I'm going to keep going right to the end.

LARRY KING:
You're going to go until the calling comes?

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
Right.

LARRY KING:
What does the president entail? I've heard of you called the prophet. Are you the...when you speak, do you speak for the Church?

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
I speak for the Church, yes. I think so. Yes.

LARRY KING:
And this is a position that you're appointed, how do you get this, how do you get to be president?

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
You're appointed a member of the Council of Twelve and you outlive everybody else. Senior member of the Twelve becomes the president of the Church.

LARRY KING:
The council takes turns.

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
Right.

LARRY KING:
Well, tell us a little bit about the faith and then lots of issues. Why are you a Mormon?

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
Oh, I believe in it. I believe very strongly in it.

LARRY KING:
We're you born into it?

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
I come from a Mormon background. I'm the third generation in the Church. Only the third. From pioneer days my grandfather came across the plains in a wagon with oxen. And my father was active in the Church, I'm here, part of it as a young man I went on a mission and came back and I've moved up through the various steps.

LARRY KING:
All your life has been in the Church?

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
Yes. Because when I came home from my mission, I received my doctor...or my bachelor's degree before I went on a mission. That's unusual now, but it was not uncommon then and when I came back the heads of the Church asked me to come and work there and I pioneered in the public relations work of the Church.

LARRY KING:
And you're the one taking this Church even wider worldwide than in the past, right?

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
I hope so.

LARRY KING:
What's your goal?

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
My goal is to move it as fast and as solidly across the world as we can.

LARRY KING:
How many countries are you in?

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
161.

LARRY KING:
Time magazine reported that you have, like, the Church has over 10 million members worldwide, right?

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
Yes, sir.

LARRY KING:
Half in America.

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
Yes, approximately.

LARRY KING:
And it's growing outside as well as inside?

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
Absolutely, yes.

LARRY KING:
How about the wealth? Why is your church so wealthy?

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
Because our people...

LARRY KING:
I mean at 5.9 billion.

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
Well, I don't know about that figure, but we get along. We have enough to take care of what we need to do. The financial law of the Church is the law of tithing. It goes back to the Old Testament.

LARRY KING:
They give, all the Church members...

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
Ten percent is expected of our people and they pay it faithfully.

LARRY KING:
And the money is used how? When people hear that much money, and they associate it with religion they often think of why does a religion, any faith, have to raise funds?

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
We have to build many buildings. As this Church grows, we have to accommodate our people. We will finish, or dedicate 600 new buildings this year. That's a tremendous undertaking. We maintain Brigham Young University, the largest private Church-sponsored university in America.

LARRY KING:
That's your school, I mean you own that school.

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
Yes, sir. Yes, sir. And we have many other projects. The great family history resource used by people all over the world.

LARRY KING:
You checked the genealogy, right?

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
Yes, sir. Yes, sir.

LARRY KING:
The news really worked with you.

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
If you'd like to know about Larry King Live, we'd probably have a record on that.

LARRY KING:
I know you have a record on my wife, because I married a Mormon, it should be stated, so...

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
Well, we have them on not only those in the Church, but out of the Church as well.

LARRY KING:
The things current, let's discuss first the President. Many religious leaders are now speaking out, in fact a major church this morning said he should resign. What, President Hinckley, are your thoughts on President Clinton?

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
Well, I feel very sorry for him in the first place. Here's a man of great talent and capacity who's evidently just hurt himself so seriously that it must be a terrible thing for him. Personally I forgive him. The Lord has said, "I the Lord will forgive whom I will forgive, but of you it's required to forgive all men." And in that sense I forgive him of any offenses committed against me. But he still has accountability. He's accountable to the Congress. He's accountable to the people of the United States who elected him. He's accountable to God. I believe that and that's what he must face.

LARRY KING:
And who determines that accounting?

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
The Congress of the United States, the House of Representatives, where it will go first and if they make a judgement there that in the direction of impeachment then it will go to the Senate.

LARRY KING:
If the charges we've heard, just what he admitted to, obviously that part is true, if that's it, there are some saying he should resign and some saying he shouldn't. Do you think he should leave the post if he has morally impaired it?

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
Let me say that I still believe that right is right and wrong is wrong. "Thou shalt not commit adultery." "Thou shalt not steal." "Thou shalt not bear false witness." These aren't suggestions. These are commandments.

LARRY KING:
It was a fait accompli. It was not negotiated.

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
Given by Jehovah on Sinai. The Ten Commandments. They're as applicable today as they were when they were first given.

LARRY KING:
Should he then resign, Mr. President?

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
I think he must make his own decision and the Congress must make their decision.

LARRY KING:
So when you say you forgive, you forgive the act?

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
I forgive...

LARRY KING:
Or you forgive the actor, not the act?

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
I forgive the actor as far as I'm concerned. I'm not trying to hold any malice against him or against anybody else. I think that's my responsibility to extend the hand of forgiveness and helpfulness. But at the same time the position of the President of the United States of America carries with it a tremendous trust. In my judgement, an inescapable trust. I brought with me some words from George Washington, the first inaugural address of 1789. This is what he said, he hoped that "the foundations of our national polity will be laid in the pure and immutable principles of private morality and the preeminence of free government be exemplified by all the attributes which can win the affections of its citizens and command the respect of the world." That's a great statement. Is it asking too much of our public servants to not only make of this nation, the greatest nation on earth politically, militarily, but also to give moral leadership to the world?

LARRY KING:
What do you think it's done to the country?

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
I think it's fractured the country for one thing. I see the evidence of that everywhere, as I have listened to your program, various Congress and on, I've said to myself, "This is divisive. It's happened but it's divisive." Let's get the report from Mr. Starr, let's have the Congress act on it, let's make a decision, lets move on.

LARRY KING:
Are you shocked, as some in the religious field are, that a lot of the public still continues to be in his favor?

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
Well, I'm surprised. I'm not shocked. I'm surprised. I'm disappointed in a sense because it's my feeling that you cannot divorce private behavior from public leadership.

LARRY KING:
Can't divorce it?

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
I don't believe so.

LARRY KING:
That includes, then, your private behavior. If you...

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
My private behavior, absolutely.

LARRY KING:
Is our business?

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
I have an accountability. I carry a trust that's incumbent upon me. Yes.

LARRY KING:
We'll be right back with President Gordon B. Hinckley, the president of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, lots of issues to discuss, your phone calls too, don't go away.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LARRY KING:
In a major front page story on the Mormons, Time magazine quoted the sociologist Rodney Stark of the University of Washington. He said that in about 82 years Mormon membership worldwide will be 260 million. What is the attraction?

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
I won't be around when that prophesy is fulfilled.

LARRY KING:
I wouldn't bet on it, at 88 . What attracts people to the faith, those not born of it?

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
I think many, several things do. One, we stand for something. We stand solid and strong for something. We don't equivocate. We don't just fuss around over this and that. People are looking for something in this world of shifting values, of anchors that are slipping. Many people are looking for something that they can hold on to, an anchor to which they can attach their lives. That's one thing. Two, we expect things of our people. We expect them to do things. We expect them to measure up to certain standards. It isn't always easy to be a member of this Church. It's demanding. But it's wonderfully fruitful and has a tremendous effect upon people.

LARRY KING:
You require helping people less fortunate, right?

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
Yes sir, we do.

LARRY KING:
Are people ever thrown out of your church?

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
Yes.

LARRY KING:
For?

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
Doing what they shouldn't do. Preaching false doctrine, speaking out publicly. They can carry all the opinion they wish within their head, so to speak, but if they begin to try to persuade others, then they may be called in to a disciplinary council.

LARRY KING:
Now...

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
We don't excommunicate many but we do some.

LARRY KING:
Concerning morality, in the past the Church has had some problems in this area. One was the racial area.

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
Yeah.

LARRY KING:
The story was that blacks couldn't attain any hierarchy.

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
Right.

LARRY KING:
Is that changed?

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
Yes it has. In 1978 that was changed. We now work strongly among the blacks. I have been to Africa recently, up and down that continent, meeting with wonderful people, great leaders. All of our local leaders are local people who work on a volunteer basis. None of them is paid.

LARRY KING:
Could there someday be a black president?

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
Oh, it could be. It's conceivable. Yes.

LARRY KING:
Just as there could be a black Pope someday.

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
Sure.

LARRY KING:
So that's all equal.

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
Yes, all equal.

LARRY KING:
Now the big story raging in Utah, before we get back to morals and morality is that the big story, if you don't know, it is polygamy in Utah. There's been major charges. The governor, Mike Leavitt, says that there are legal reasons why the state of Utah has not prosecuted alleged polygamists. Leavitt said plural marriage may be protected by the First Amendment. He is the great-great-grandson, is the governor, of a polygamist. First, tell me about the Church and polygamy. When it started, it allowed it?

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
When our people came west, they permitted it on a restricted scale.

LARRY KING:
You could have a certain amount of....

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
The figures that I have are from, between, 2% and 5% of our people were involved in it. It was a very limited practice, carefully safeguarded. In 1890 that practice was discontinued. The president of the Church, the man who occupied the position which I occupy today, went before the people, said he had prayed about it, worked on it, and had received from the Lord a revelation that it was time to stop, to discontinue it then. Then, that's 118 years ago. It's behind us.

LARRY KING:
When the word is mentioned, when you hear the word you think "Mormon." Right?

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
You do, mistakenly. They have no connection with us whatever. They don't belong to the Church. There are actually no Mormon fundamentalists.

LARRY KING:
Are you surprised that there's apparently a lot of polygamy in Utah?

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
I've seen the thing grow somewhat. I don't know how large it is. I don't know how pervasive it is.

LARRY KING:
Should there be arrests?

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
It's a matter of civil procedure. The Church can't do anything. We have no authority in this matter, none whatever.

LARRY KING:
Would you like to see the state clamp down on it?

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
I think that I leave that entirely in the hands of the civil officers. It's a civil offense. It's in violation of the law. We have nothing to do with it. We are totally distanced from it and if the state chooses to move on it, that's a responsibility of civil officers.

LARRY KING:
President Hinckley, when the press that pays attention to it, it does affect you, certainly in a public relations sense.

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
It does, because people mistakenly assume that this Church has something to do with that. It has nothing whatever to do with it. It has had nothing to do with it for a very long time. It's outside the realm of our responsibility. These people are not members. Any man or woman who becomes involved in it is excommunicated from the Church.

LARRY KING:
Prosecutors in Utah are quoted as saying, they told the Salt Lake Tribune, that it is difficult to prosecute polygamists because of a lack of evidence and ex-wives and daughters rarely complain about it.

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
Well...

LARRY KING:
Do you see that as a problem?

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
It's secretive. There is a certain element of secretiveness about it. I suppose they have some difficulty. They say they do, in gathering evidence.

LARRY KING:
Should the Church be more forceful in speaking out? I mean, you're forceful here tonight but maybe in saying that it's, rather than just a state matter, encouraging the state to prosecute.

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
I don't know. We'll consider it.

LARRY KING:
I'm giving you an idea.

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
Yeah, yeah.

LARRY KING:
Would you look better if you were?

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
I don't know if we would or not. As far as I am concerned, I have nothing to do with it. It belongs to the civil officers of the state.

LARRY KING:
You condemn it.

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
I condemn it yes, as a practice, because I think that it is not doctrinal, it is not legal and this Church takes the position that we will abide by the law. We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, magistrates in honoring obeying and sustaining the law.

LARRY KING:
The essence of the Church is that Christ was in the Americas, right?

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
Yes, at one time.

LARRY KING:
That is the essence of the concept of the Church. And that is the Latter-day Saints.

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
That is one of the elements of it. Now, that's the background out of which comes the Book of Mormon. The Bible is, as I see it, the testament of the old world, the Book of Mormon is the testament of the new world, and they go hand in hand in testimony of the Lord Jesus Christ.

LARRY KING:
We'll talk with President Hinckley about the Mormon church, speaking out on great world issues right after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LARRY KING:
We're back. This is a historic night. We have the President of the Mormon church as our special guest and Mark McGwire has bested the all-time home run record, hitting number 62 tonight in St. Louis. A lot of games left to play, here's the way it looked.

[Mark McGwire story insert]

LARRY KING:
(Comments on Mark McGwire and promotional mention of upcoming nightly news)

We're with the distinguished Gordon B. Hinckley, President of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. I guess you congratulate Mr. McGwire, too?

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
I do. Most heartily.

LARRY KING:
Seen a lot of baseball history in your life?

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
Great cause for celebration.

LARRY KING:
You were around when Ruth was playing?

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
I was around when Ruth was playing.

LARRY KING:
Did you ever see Ruth?

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
No, I never did.

LARRY KING:
But you knew him?

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
We didn't have television then. But we read about it in the paper. We had a score board on Main Street.

LARRY KING:
Where? Main Street in Salt Lake?

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
And South Temple, yes. Baseball scoreboards. Yeah. Oh well the ball was moved around on the board and people would stand out there by the hundreds and watch it.

LARRY KING:
And everyone knew the Babe.

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
Oh, absolutely!

LARRY KING:
We've discussed Mike Leavitt, the governor of Utah and that his difficulty in trying some of these cases, the L.A. Times, New York Times reported widespread reports of girls as young ten into arranged marriages and the difficult time dealing with it. Tell us your thoughts about this governor.

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
Well, the governor is a native of Utah, a young man, part of the economy and the insurance business, other things. Grew up there. I know his father and mother well. I know him well. I regard him as a good man doing a good job.

LARRY KING:
Is this a tough spot for him?

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
It's a tough spot for him. He's dependent on the county attorneys, the prosecuting attorneys. They have to make the decision on this matter.

LARRY KING:
Why would they be hesitant, do you think?

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
Well, I don't know. I don't know. I haven't gone into it. I don't know why, but they are. There are many factors, I think. Gathering of evidence is difficult. What do you do with children? And their parents? A very difficult situation to face. It's a hard thing to deal with, but as far as we're concerned, it's behind us, a long ways. We're out moving across the world.

LARRY KING:
There are splinter groups...

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
Oh, there are splinter groups.

LARRY KING:
...that are a splinter off your faith, as they have off many faiths.

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
You have to expect that, oh sure, oh sure. We have some splinter groups.

LARRY KING:
Why do you...does the Church...or maybe I'm in error...not speak...like, I've gone to services, and there's no priest or rabbi or minister, but I never hear, I have not heard a Sunday service that would discuss world poverty or President Clinton or what they think of Bosnia...

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
We don't think much about it, but we act! That's what happens. We've carried on a great humanitarian effort.

LARRY KING:
Feeding people?

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
Feeding people, giving them medicine, clothing, food. North Korea. We don't let politics stand in the way of what we do.

LARRY KING:
You work in North Korea?

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
Yes, we've just been very helpful there. We've given them a lot of money. We've sent a farmer there, an expert from Canada to show them how to raise crops.

LARRY KING:
This is politics aside then?

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
Politics aside. The Church does not become involved in politics. We don't favor any candidate. We don't permit our buildings to be used for political purposes. We don't favor any party.

LARRY KING:
But you do speak out or will speak out more on moral issues?

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
We speak very strongly on moral issues. Gambling, liquor, what have you. Yes.

LARRY KING:
Against them all. Right?

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
That's right.

LARRY KING:
How about guns?

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
Guns, we haven't done much with. I don't have one.

LARRY KING:
Neither do I. But are you thinking about maybe speaking out more on that?

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
I don't think we've given it any consideration that I remember.

LARRY KING:
We'll be right back with President Gordon Hinckley. In a little while we'll go to your phone calls. He's President of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Senator Joseph Leiberman will be here Thursday night. Senator John Ashcroft tomorrow. Don't go away.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LARRY KING:
In Washington on a fairly regular basis there are prayer breakfasts. Billy Graham has attended. I'm sure you've been at some. Should we pray for our president?

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
I think we should pray for our president.

LARRY KING:
And the prayer should say what?

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
I don't know. I haven't given that a lot of thought. But it would....pray for strength to stand up in these difficult circumstances. My, he is going through something terrible.

LARRY KING:
But it is self-caused, right?

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
His wife must be going through something terrible. His daughter must be going through something terrible. He needs help. Now, I repeat, that doesn't mean that he isn't accountable. He occupies a great and sacred trust. As you know, if a school principal were involved in any such thing as he is accused of being involved in, he wouldn't last a day, scarcely. School teacher, police officer, any of these people. He is the president of the United States. There is a right way. There is a wrong way. There is truth, there's mischief, there's evil. I don't think it's asking too much of any public officer to stand tall and be a model before the people. Not only in the ordinary aspects of leadership but in the way, in the manner in which he conducts himself.

LARRY KING:
You used the word mischief. Is this worse than mischief?

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
Oh, yes, sure.

LARRY KING:
It is?

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
That is the thing of which he is accused of. I want to say....

LARRY KING:
That he admitted to.

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
....Candidly and straightforwardly that I'm speaking to a principle now...

LARRY KING:
Right.

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
...and not particularly to a personality. This is a principle concerning the kind of behavior of which he has been accused.

LARRY KING:
Yet you can love and forgive him.

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
Oh I think so.

LARRY KING:
At the same time condemn the way...

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
I've been in President Clinton's office, the Oval Office, had a very pleasant delightful visit with him about a year or two ago. I don't remember when it was. We gave him his family history.

LARRY KING:
Oh you did?

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
Yes.

LARRY KING:
Traced it back through....

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
Yes, and had a wonderful visit with him. The man has tremendous ability, tremendous capacity. Now he jeopardizes all of that with this kind of thing. It is just a tragedy.

LARRY KING:
You knew President Reagan too, did you not?

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
Yes, Yes. Presented his family history to him.

LARRY KING:
I thought you'd bring mine tonight.

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
Well...

LARRY KING:
Anyway, We'll be right back with President Gordon B. Hinckley of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, with your phone calls next. Don't go away.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LARRY KING:
Mormons are certainly famous for having children. In fact I believe one of your hospitals in Salt Lake City is the busiest maternity ward in America.

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
I don't know.

LARRY KING:
Well, in that...and I know I'm not...and in that regard, what does this current tribulation with the President say or do to children, do you think?

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
Oh, I think it has a corrosive influence on everybody. Not everybody. There's some people who just brush it off.

LARRY KING:
Look the other way.

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
On many, many people I think its damaging to children. You can't watch television without bumping into it. I think it's a difficult thing and children need help these days. Families need strengthening. That's our great undertaking, one of many to strengthen the families, to reach out to people. Put father at the head of the house, again.

LARRY KING:
In charge?

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
In charge.

LARRY KING:
Of the mother?

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
A good man, a good father who loves his wife...

LARRY KING:
In charge of...

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
...and whose wife loves him and whose children love him. Let them grow together as good citizens of the land. I'm not, a great problem facing this nation in my belief is what's happening to the American home. It's falling apart. Families are falling apart all over the world.

LARRY KING:
When you say father in charge, you mean he's the boss of the mother?

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
Oh, I don't mean the boss. Look, I've been a father, you've been a father. Do you run around bossing people?

LARRY KING:
Nope.

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
No, of course not. You acted with love and appreciation and respect.

LARRY KING:
Family unity, you're talking about?

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
Family unity.

LARRY KING:
Why do you think it's gone? Travel, jet-age, movement, television?

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
People abdicated their responsibility. Fathers have. I read in The Readers Digest some years ago an article by a judge in New York who said that his experience indicated that the problem with the families falling apart was that there was no father in that family. Now here we have children born to husbandless wives. Hundreds of thousands of them. Twenty-three percent of the births in the United States into fatherless homes. With that kind of phenomena going on, what do you expect?

LARRY KING:
What do you feel about all, the affect of all of this on Chelsea Clinton?

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
Oh, I can only guess. That's purely speculative, but I think it would be very, very difficult, very difficult. I think it would be difficult on any child.

LARRY KING:
Let's take some calls for President Hinckley. We start with Houston, Texas. Hello.

CALLER:
Yes. A recent news story said that a video of, videos of the movie "Titanic" being sold in Utah were having certain parts edited or censored? What parts are they and why? And do you or the Mormon church believe in the censorship of books or films?

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
No. We don't censor books and films, as a practice, no. This thing that is taking place has nothing whatever to do with the Church. Not a thing.

LARRY KING:
Do you know what they're taking out?

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
Yes, I've read just a newspaper story on it. That's all I know about it.

LARRY KING:
What was taking out?

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
That they excised the portion in the film that was, where there was nudity and something of that kind.

LARRY KING:
But that's not a church thing?

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
No, no. It has nothing whatever to do with the Church. I should say not.

LARRY KING:
Tallahassee, Florida, hello.

CALLER:
Hello Larry. President, one of the things that I'm asked constantly is why doesn't the Church come out many a times when they are accused or attacked in the press or in the media in general?

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
We do come out sometimes. But you have to know this, that if you get into a fight with somebody, you just excite more curiosity and create more problems then you settle.

LARRY KING:
But of stories that effect you, like this polygamy story, affects you because it's associated with the past of the Mormons.

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
Yeah. I've made a statement. I just made one now. We've made some other statements. It is simply not a Church issue.

LARRY KING:
London, England. Hello.

CALLER:
Hi, good morning Larry.

LARRY KING:
Hi.

CALLER:
Hi. Mr. Hinckley, I just have a question.

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
Yes.

CALLER:
As a representative of the Christian faith, I just had a question about if you feel that the President is doing a good job, you know, why can't we just forgive and forget his, you know, human errors, and, you know, get on with it, you know, because he is human.

LARRY KING:
Now we're hearing a lot of this. He is human, forgive and if you forgive, forget.

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
Well, your question is well phrased, well taken. A lot of people feel just as you feel. I just get back to the fact that I would appreciate in our public leaders more of valuing personal probity. If you don't establish values at the top and live by those values, you seriously jeopardize behavior down below in the ranks.

LARRY KING:
But when you say, as this woman is saying, he's doing a good job, she's a Christian, you're of the Christian faith, well, I guess, you don't call yourself Christians, right?

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
Oh, of course we do.

LARRY KING:
You are Christian? Okay. You're of the faith...

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
Yeah.

LARRY KING:
...the founder of all Christianity forgave.

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
Forgive them for they know not what they do.

LARRY KING:
And she said, "Forgive and forget."

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
I've said exactly that on this program tonight...

LARRY KING:
Okay, well then...

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
...that I forgive him, but he is still accountable to the people who elected him. He's accountable to the Congress who sit in judgement on him and I believe he's accountable to God.

LARRY KING:
And do you believe that God calls in his accounts?

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
Oh, I don't have much doubt of that.

LARRY KING:
Do you think we pay the piper?

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
What is it that Revelation says, and how the books were opened and we were judged out of the books? Sure, I think we have to stand before God and make an accounting of our lives.

LARRY KING:
We'll be right back.

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
God expects something of us.

LARRY KING:
Do you ever doubt your faith?

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
No.

LARRY KING:
We'll be right back with President Hinckley on Larry King Live after this.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LARRY KING:
Before we take our next call, apparently there is a lack of clarity in some areas. A lot of people calling in. If asked, if he asked you, would you recommend resignation, or would you say wait until Congress hears it? On a pure personal recommendation basis?

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
I would say wait until Congress acts on it. He hasn't been convicted of anything. He's made certain admissions. But he has not been convicted of malfeasance in office or any of those things. I would let it take its course.

LARRY KING:
Do you fear the worst in the Starr report? On personal fears?

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
No, I don't.

LARRY KING:
You don't?

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
I don't. I haven't, no I don't think so.

LARRY KING:
Because there's a lot of rumors.

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
Oh there are rumors all over the place. Washington leaks like a sieve.

LARRY KING:
Louisville, Kentucky with President Hinckley. Hello.

CALLER:
Hello, this is Hue Relgen and my question is to Mr. Hinckley. If I just read the Bible, the Old Testament, the New Testament, and preach out of it, is that incomplete? In other words, do I need to read the Book of Mormon and preach it as well? Or can I just get by on the Old and New Testament?

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
As you read the Bible you will find the statement, "In the mouths of two or more witnesses shall all things be established." That is a biblical statement. The Bible is a witness of the divinity of Christ. The Book of Mormon, we assert, is also a witness of the divinity of Christ and those two, hand in hand, become two voices speaking in declaration of the divinity of the Lord.

LARRY KING:
So you should refer to and read from three books? Old...

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
Two books. Old Testament, New Testament, and the Book of Mormon, yes.

LARRY KING:
That's three books, right?

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
Yes. Yes.

LARRY KING:
When someone only preaches from the New Testament are they in error?

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
Oh, I don't know they are in error. They're going as far as they feel disposed to go.

LARRY KING:
And the Old Testament, as far as they feel disposed to go?

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
Yes.

LARRY KING:
And you're saying to them, "Bring your faith with you," right?

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
Sure.

LARRY KING:
You're not saying, "Leave your Catholicism?"

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
I say this to other people. You develop all the good you can. We have no animosity toward any other church. We do not oppose other churches. We never speak negatively of other churches. We say to people, "You bring all the good that you have and let us see if we can add to it."

LARRY KING:
Salt Lake City, Utah. Hello.

CALLER:
Hello. How are you doing, Larry?

LARRY KING:
I'm fine.

CALLER:
I was wondering about some of the guidelines in dietary restrictions Mormons live by and how strictly members follow them. As I was reading once the Word of Wisdom my impression was that its major point was that one should respect all life, including animals, as such, only consume them when absolutely necessary to sustain life and to then eat them sparingly. But I've noticed this is rarely followed by Mormons and I'm wondering if this has something to do with, as reported by Time magazine...

LARRY KING:
Okay. President?

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
Oh, I don't know. You've read a part of the Word of Wisdom. The Word of Wisdom covers many things. It covers the excessive use of meat, as I see it. It covers in a very particular way the use of tobacco and alcohol.

LARRY KING:
By saying, "No."

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
By saying, by proscribing those things.

LARRY KING:
No to caffeine.

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
No to caffeine, coffee and tea.

LARRY KING:
Do you know why?

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
Oh, yes.

LARRY KING:
Dietary codes of the Old Testament were based on the health of animals and stuff.

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
Well, the wonderful thing is that the Book of Mormon, or I mean the Word of Wisdom has shown be fruitful in what the...

LARRY KING:
You were ahead of yourself in the health craze.

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
Yeah. This man I met here not too long ago at UCLA, Enstrom, I think his name is, who has conducted a study for some fourteen years taking a peer group of Latter-day Saints, a peer group of the other population and reached a conclusion that because of the degree to which we observe the Word of Wisdom, Mormons have a life expectancy of from eight to eleven years longer. Now who in the world wouldn't give almost anything for eight to ten years of life. I have here with me right now a statement from the Los Angeles Times on this very fact. The study conducted by UCLA tracked the mortality rates and health practices of nearly ten thousand California high priests and their wives for fourteen years. As a follow-up to research Enstrom published in 1989 the study confirms that, "The healthiest active Mormons have a life expectancy that is eight to eleven years longer than that of the general white population in the U.S." Close quote.

LARRY KING:
Based on those figures my wife will outlive me by 67 years.

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
I wouldn't be surprised.

LARRY KING:
Neither would I. We'll be right back. Don't go away.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LARRY KING:
We're back with President Gordon B. Hinckley of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints and we go to St. George, Utah. Hello.

CALLER:
Hi. This is a question for President Hinckley, excuse me. Number one, I'd like to say it's good to see you in good health and two, I have a question. What would your counsel be for us in the Church, regarding this President Clinton issue?

LARRY KING:
Counsel to whom, sir?

CALLER:
To President Hinckley.

LARRY KING:
I know, but counsel to people in the Church, you mean?

CALLER:
Yes. Yes.

LARRY KING:
Okay, what should you say to your parishioners?

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
Let the established procedures run their course. Wait for the Starr report. Wait for Congress to act. We don't condemn until there has been some basis for condemnation.

LARRY KING:
But you condemn what he's admitted to.

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
There are some things that he has admitted that we're disappointed in. Seriously so. But, let's let the regular processes of the law run their course and then we can take a position.

LARRY KING:
Many churches have atonement?

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
Yes.

LARRY KING:
The Catholics, you can gather and ask for forgiveness...

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
Yes, yes, we do.

LARRY KING:
Can an adulterer stay in the Church by admitting it?

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
Oh yes. There are various penalties, but yes. We're not a harsh people in that sense. We're a very kindly, forgiving people. We really are. Our responsibility is to save people. Ours is a gospel of salvation. Ours is a gospel to lift people, to lift the world, to help people.

LARRY KING:
What do those huge temples mean, though?

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
Those huge temples?

LARRY KING:
Everyone knows them.

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
Those huge temples are monuments, if you please, to our belief in the immortality of the human soul. Everything that occurs...

LARRY KING:
You will go on after death?

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
Yes. Of course I believe that.

LARRY KING:
And those buildings are a symbol of that.

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
Yes and they become an expression of that. Yes. Baptisms for the dead, for those who are beyond the veil. The Lord said ,"except a man be born of water and of the spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of Heaven." He didn't exempt anyone. Lots of wonderful people have lived and died without that opportunity. Paul said, "What shall they do who are baptized for the dead if the dead rise not at all? Why are they then baptized for the dead?" It is a scriptural doctrine.

LARRY KING:
How is the Tabernacle Choir doing?

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
The Tabernacle Choir is doing just wonderfully.

LARRY KING:
One of the great singing groups of all times.

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
Oh, they're marvelous.

LARRY KING:
Atheists love them.

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
A national treasure.

LARRY KING:
We go to Redford [Rexburg], Idaho. Hello.

CALLER:
Hi. I was just wondering if I could ask a question?

LARRY KING:
Sure.

CALLER:
On whether or not they discriminate against, like, non-LDS people, like, for Ricks College, or like, for BYU?

LARRY KING:
You want to go to BYU, do you have to be a Mormon?

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
No. No, you don't.

LARRY KING:
Do you have many non-Mormons?

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
Quite a few, yes. Yes. We have non-Mormons there. We have non-Mormons at Ricks. We have non-Mormons.

LARRY KING:
Ricks is another school?

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
Ricks is another school that we have. Yes. There's no discrimination in that.

LARRY KING:
Are you happy with the way with the sports program at Brigham Young has developed?

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
Yes. I hope we have a better football season this year.

LARRY KING:
But you've had some very good basketball teams?

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
We've had very good basketball teams in the past. Not so much recently. We've had good football teams and I hope we have a good team this year.

LARRY KING:
Do you have a Salt Lake City of Europe? By that I mean a center city in Europe? A center city in South America?

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
No. No, but we have what we call Area Offices across the world. We have them in Tokyo, in Hong Kong, in Manilla, in Sydney.

LARRY KING:
What place aren't you in that you want to go in?

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
No place that I know of today.

LARRY KING:
You're in Moscow?

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
We go in the front door. We go in legally.

LARRY KING:
You're in China?

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
We go in with the public officials knowing what we're doing. We don't try any subterfuge.

LARRY KING:
But you proselytize the faithful though, right?

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
Yes we do.

LARRY KING:
You want people to come to you?

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
Yes. Our job is to make bad men good and good men better.

LARRY KING:
We'll be back with a pretty good man, the President of the Mormons, Gordon B. Hinckley. Our remaining moments after

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LARRY KING:
We're back. Berry, Vermont, for President Hinckley. Hello.

CALLER:
Yeah. Since we're getting into the 21st Century, President Hinckley, what is the chance that women may hold the priesthood in the Mormon church?

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
Well, they don't hold the priesthood at the present time. It would take another revelation to bring that about. I don't anticipate it. The women of the Church are not complaining about it. They have their own organization, a very strong organization, four million plus members. I don't know of another women's organization in the world which does so much for women as does that this Church has. They're happy. They sit on boards that are governance in the Church. I don't hear any complaints about it.

LARRY KING:
Do you know why they can't be priests?

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
Well, only that the Lord has not designated that they will be.

LARRY KING:
And that's the same position as the Pope?

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
Same principle, yes.

LARRY KING:
Same principle.

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
I think so, yes.

LARRY KING:
So a revelation could come to you or it could come to the Pope or the next president or the next pope?

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
If it did, that's what it would take. That's exactly what it would take.

LARRY KING:
And everyone has seen all around America and the world, your elders.

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
Yes.

LARRY KING:
These are the young men who go out on missions.

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
Right.

LARRY KING:
My wife's brother returns from one this Friday.

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
Yes. He's been a very good missionary incidentally.

LARRY KING:
Brett is good, huh?

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
I checked on him. He's a very good missionary.

LARRY KING:
Brett Engeman?

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
Yes.

LARRY KING:
Yeah, Elder Engeman.

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
He gets released on the 11th.

LARRY KING:
Released!

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
Right.

LARRY KING:
And he answers to Dale Murphy who's going to be in the Hall of Fame next year.

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
Right. Exactly, exactly.

LARRY KING:
He's stayed active in the Church, Dale, right?

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
Oh, very busy.

LARRY KING:
Now what are the Elders in their black suits and worn out shoes, it sounds like a song, what do they do?

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
They do missionary work. They call on people.

LARRY KING:
At a young age?

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
Yes. Nineteen years of age. I've had five grandchildren on missions now at one time and they've been scattered across the world.

LARRY KING:
I saw a letter he wrote recently to his sister saying that his life has changed totally through this experience. He's quite a football star and he's going to go back to athletics.

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
What happens?

LARRY KING:
What does it do for them?

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
Look, here 57,000 missionaries, most of them young men, sent out into the world at a time when they're most likely to be thinking of themselves, interrupting their schooling to go at their own expense to teach the gospel of peace across the earth. What greater force for good in all the world could you have than an army like that? What does it do for them? Builds self-confidence, builds faith, builds interest in people, builds a great concern for the poor and the needy of the earth. They learn languages. They work in humanitarian work.

LARRY KING:
All over the world, right?

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
Yes.

LARRY KING:
Women go too?

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
Yes. Some do.

LARRY KING:
What...we only have about a minute and a half...what is the role in a society of the leader of a sect?

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
The leader of a...

LARRY KING:
What's your role, you're the leader of a major religion?

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
Yes sir.

LARRY KING:
What's your role?

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
My role is to declare doctrine. My role is to stand as an example before the people. My role is to be a voice in defense of the truth. My role is to stand as a conservator of those values which are important in our civilization and our society. My role is to lead people.

LARRY KING:
And if you ever stray or lose that role, the effect is monumental, right?

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
It is monumental. It would be monumental and it would deserve to be monumental.

LARRY KING:
Is resisting temptation hard?

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
No.

LARRY KING:
Not hard?

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
No. Self-discipline. What does the proverb say? It is easier...it is more difficult to control the spirit than to rule over a city. Self-discipline is not easy. It requires effort. It requires strength. It requires thought. It requires prayer sometimes, maybe.

LARRY KING:
And people of responsibility should have more of it?

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
Absolutely.

LARRY KING:
Because they're...

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
Because they're examples before others. Sure.

LARRY KING:
This has been a wonderful...

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
Larry, it's been wonderful to be with you.

LARRY KING:
My pleasure.

PRESIDENT GORDON B. HINCKLEY:
Thank you ever so much.

LARRY KING:
Our guest has been President Gordon B. Hinckley, President of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, the Prophet.