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Ted Capener: Good evening and welcome to Civic Dialog conversation. I am Ted Capener, thank you for joining us this holiday season. With over ten million members church wide, the church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is becoming increasingly more visible around the globe. And standing at the head of the church, leading it with his unique leadership style, is church President Gordon B. Hinckley. President Hinckley thank you very much for joining us. We appreciate your spending this time with us.

Gordon B. Hinckley: Nice to be with you. Thank you.

Ted Capener: I want to ask you directions before we get started with the interview. I've been starting to search recently for the fountain of youth and I want you to tell me where it is?

Gordon B. Hinckley: I’m looking too.

Ted Capener: You’ll probably discover it first and tell the others you’ve found it. I don’t know how do all that you do. One week away from Christmas, the holiest time of the year for Christians. You think back I’m sure of your Christmases in your life, do you have a favorite memory of an early Christmas?

Gordon B. Hinckley: Well, one stands out pretty strongly, we didn’t get a lot of presents. We got a sort of a major present and a lot of peanuts and candy, pop, oranges and so on. Even coal in our stockings. But one year there was a beautiful flexible flyer sled. The Cadillac of sleds. And Seventh South where we lived was the street marked off by the city as a snow riding hill. You start at 11th East and go down to 9th East. And just travel like the wind. We spent hours going up and down that hill, it was wonderful, it’s a stand out in my memory. Another stand out in my memory is a very sad Christmas. My mother died in late November of 1930 and the Christmas that followed was rather bleak. My father tried to do it, he was a little awkward at it. But it was a mixture of bitter and the sweet. And I still remember that Christmas very vividly.

Ted Capener: Now days, many parents and families seem in ways to provide too much compared to your early life. Even my early life. Do you think we’re getting overly abundant in the amount of presents we give?

Gordon B. Hinckley: Well, I would think so, but the merchants wouldn’t.

Ted Capener: I know that, I know.

Gordon B. Hinckley: There is a terribly strong commercialism that has come into Christmas. It almost seems sinful to see the opulence of what you’ve stumbled into. On the other hand it represents an outreach, a giving. That is rather a nice singular thing that at this season of the year. Parents, friends, brothers, sisters all want to make people happy. That’s the positive side I see to it.

Ted Capener: Sure, what’s your favorite Christmas carol?

Gordon B. Hinckley: Silent night holy night is still my favorite carol.

Ted Capener: It still is?

Gordon B. Hinckley: Yep.

Ted Capener: Well that’s great. Uh, how would you suggest that the members of the LDS church, Christians, people in general support the birth of the Savior. How are you going to do it?

Gordon B. Hinckley: We need to read more, we need to read the scripture more. We need to read the New Testament and get into the birth and the life and the ministry and the death and the resurrection of Jesus. its all part of the same picture. Had there been no resurrection there likely wouldn’t be any remembrance of the birth. They all go together in one great life. In my judgment the most perfect man who ever walked the earth who stands as an example for all of us. We ought to get to know him better. We’d have more of the spirit of Christmas, more of an outreach to others, more of a concern for our neighbors if we would do it. The very reading of those scriptures would prompt us in that direction.

Ted Capener: President, we celebrate the prince of peace and his birth. Are we ever going to have peace on earth?

Gordon B. Hinckley: It looks dismal doesn’t it?

Ted Capener: It does.

Gordon B. Hinckley: It was foretold that there would be wars and rumors of wars and we have them. I don’t know. But I do think this is a wonderful time to be alive. It’s a glorious time to be alive, of all the times of the history of the world, it seems to me that this is the very best. When I was born, the life expectancy in the United States was 50 years. Today it’s 75! 25 years added to the life span of the average man or woman during my lifetime. It’s wonderful. And with all this flowering of science, the reason in my judgment is also of flowering of spirituality. I think people are better now than they have ever been—speaking of the masses and generally. I think there is greater kindness, there is greater thoughtfulness. There is a greater outreach to the distressed and the sick and the unfortunate than ever pertained in the past.

Ted Capener: You certainly are not now or never have been, I’m sure a prophet of doom, or of doomsday. Are we living in the last days?

Gordon B. Hinckley: I don’t know, but we better act as if we were.

Ted Capener: Ya.

Gordon B. Hinckley: Then we won’t have anything to worry about!

Ted Capener: That’s right

Gordon B. Hinckley: If it’s ready to come, we’ll be ready.

Ted Capener: Uh, will this season be a time of rest for you? Now you are always off at different parts of the world, picked up the other day at the last minute. Flew to Honduras to be with the people there. Are you going to get any rest now?

Gordon B. Hinckley: I don’t know. There are always things of this kind and speeches to give and they’re just constantly hanging over my head. But we’ve got a few days of rest yes. We’ll enjoy Christmas with our family. And have a good time.

Ted Capener: You are the most traveled President in the history of the church, having visited, what is it, 50 locals on 6 continents in just the past three years. Why have you done this and how have you done it at your age?

Gordon B. Hinckley: Well I like to get out with the people. The church to me is as important in Johannisburg or Copenhagen. As it is in Salt Lake City. Those people are as deserving of attention as they are here. I want to get out with them and meet them and reassure them, comfort them, thank them, bless them for the great good they’re doing.

Ted Capener: Well you’ve been very successful at that and I know you’ve worked hard for many years to insure that this church, the LDS church as being a world church. You’ve been very successful in that effort. The church is growing, ten million members? How many more members will there be? What’s your vision for the church in say 50 to 100 years?

Gordon B. Hinckley: Oh it’s going to go on. It’s going to get ever larger. There’s no question in my mind about it. It’s growing. We’re growing at the rate of about four percent a year. Now that includes natural growth and convert baptisms. But four percent on a base of ten million, is four hundred thousand in a year. So that we have a million every approximately three years or less and that time will diminish. There isn’t any question we’ll have a growth of a billion a year or some time and grow beyond that. It will out reach everywhere, go out across the world for the blessing of people everywhere. We now have more members outside the United States than we have in the United States. Fifty years ago, forty five percent of the members of the church lived in Utah. Today only 17 percent live in Utah. But we have more members of the church in Utah than we’ve ever had. Now that simply indicates the fact that we’re growing worldwide in a tremendous and a very encouraging way.

Ted Capener: With the growth and with some of the catastrophes of the world such as in Honduras, the church has under your leadership has been providing more and more aid. Does this place a special burden on the church? Is this something that can be continued by the church and does it place a special burden on the church’s members?

Gordon B. Hinckley: I don’t think it places a burden, it blesses them. For them to give and to help is a blessing to them. Yes we have done, we’ve done a very great deal of work on a humanitarian basis, out across the world among people who are not members of the church. Millions and billions of dollars, vast quantities of food and clothing and medicine. Things of that kind to lift people in distress. To save them from famine, to help them when they get in such things as happened in Honduras. We stand ready to assist wherever we can with such resources as we have. And it isn’t a burden for our people, it’s a blessing for them.

Ted Capener: Now you have led that charge if you will, to expand humanitarian services, say it has grown significantly under your leadership. We mentioned that you fly off around the world. How do you recharge yourself? How do you maintain your health and your composure, how do you do it?

Gordon B. Hinckley: Fall in bed quickly!

Ted Capener: Ha ha ha, you fall in bed quickly? Early?

Gordon B. Hinckley: Early!

Ted Capener: Early is right!

Gordon B. Hinckley: I get tired.

Ted Capener: Well sure!

Gordon B. Hinckley: I confess that, I get tired but with a good nights sleep I feel ready to go again.

Ted Capener: Do you spend much time alone, much time meditating?

Gordon B. Hinckley: Oh there isn’t a lot of time, but I do have some times yes. And I meditate, I read, I think, I meditate, I pray and that all has a very salutary affect.

Ted Capener: I’m sure, and you pray constantly at certain times I’m sure?!

Gordon B. Hinckley: Oh sure, I pray every night and every morning and sometimes in between!

Ted Capener: Ya, ya.

Gordon B. Hinckley: And if the occasion warrants.

Ted Capener: And that gives you strength?

Gordon B. Hinckley: Certainly, the lord is there, it’s possible to call on him. He answers, he helps, he blesses. I have no doubt of that, I have experienced it many times. To me it’s a wonderful thing and a very reassuring thing.

Ted Capener: President Hinckley, what are the burdens of having ten million souls up.....

Gordon B. Hinckley: Ten million.

Ted Capener: Ya, ten million souls rely so heavily upon you as a prophet?

Gordon B. Hinckley: Well, in the first place it’s very humbling. Without any question. Adulation can be a very terrible thing, a poisonous thing. Adulation is poison. How do I handle that? People heap kindnesses everywhere. But I simply say to myself, they’re not honoring Gordon B. Hinckley, they’re honoring the office. And if you keep it in that perspective you’ll get along all right.

Ted Capener: And you’ve done it?

Gordon B. Hinckley: I hope so.

Ted Capener: Ya, you’ve done it very well. You mentioned earlier the growth of the church in Utah, the population in Utah has grown enormously some think too much. In any case, some of the people who come to our state new. People with all kinds of diversity and different beliefs feel overwhelmed by the majority, the LDS majority. Does that concern you as an individual and as the leader of the church?

Gordon B. Hinckley: Well relationships always concern me. I’m concerned about our relationships with other people. Diversity is a good thing. It brings a sprinkling of new ideas and things of that kind. As long as it isn’t mean and venomous in It’s nature. But diversity is a good thing and we welcome these people. We hope that they’ll find this is a nice place to live. We treasure this as a place to live and we hope that they’ll have the same kind of experience. I regret very much the animosity that sometimes springs up in our communities. I think it’s unnecessary and unwanted and altogether undesirable. And we have to do everything in the world we can to alleviate it.

Ted Capener: I know you personally have put your hand out, your leadership efforts with leaders of other churches in our community through various organizations. Is that successful? Has that been something you feel good about?

Gordon B. Hinckley: Oh I think we’ve made some progress, yes, definitely. We get along well with the Jewish people. We get along well with the Catholics, we get along well with the Greeks. We get along well, I hope with the Protestants. But there are little spots here and there, groups of people who seem to enjoy taking shots at us. And unfortunately some of our people, may be a little unkind in what they say and do and I regret that very much. I don’t think it’s necessary. We have to live together as Christians. The lord said that we should love the lord with all our heart, might, mind and soul. And the second commandment is like unto it. Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. That’s a demanding thing. That’s a very important thing. And we can’t evade it. Its a responsibility that is serious for all of us.

Ted Capener: We interviewed Frank Layden a bit ago during the NBA play-offs last spring I guess. He said that he crossed through the Temple grounds before he went to the Cathedral and covered all his bases to make sure the Jazz would win that night. So he was ecumenical in that endeavor. Now you spoke recently to the US conference of mayors about the need for heroes. Heroes for our young people primarily, although I think older people need heroes too. Who were your heroes?

Gordon B. Hinckley: Well, I had heroes, definitely. Washington was a hero, Lincoln was a hero, my father was a man who loved Lincoln. We had a great library in our house. One large room devoted to a library room. A thousand or more volumes around in book cases. And a wonderful bronze statue of Abraham Lincoln. With the emancipation proclamation in his hand. In school, February 12 was a holiday. February 22 was a holiday. We read about these Presidents, we learned about them. Now we have Presidents day. What does it amount to? Another day of shopping.

Ted Capener: that’s right.

Gordon B. Hinckley: No, our heroes in the church. I did have heroes in my boyhood. I loved to hear Richard E Bird who was a....... flew to the south pole. My father took me to hear him lecture when I was a little boy. And he became a hero to me as he described his exploits. Somehow we don’t have that now. We have athletic heroes. We have media heroes, who are paid astronomical sums of money and they become the heroes for our young people. I think some of their values may be somewhat misplaced.

Ted Capener: Why is it important to have heroes?

Gordon B. Hinckley: Oh you need a marker. If you are plowing the field you need a fence post down there to keep the furrows straight. that’s what heroes do for you. They stand there as something by which to judge your actions. Its very important.

Ted Capener: You mentioned plowing the field. That makes me think about your youth and working on the acreage, the farm even out ... there weren’t many houses where I live now. How do you get the spirit that you used to get with your hands in the soil. You can’t do that so much now, so where do you get that?

Gordon B. Hinckley: Oh, I can get my hands dirty any time I want!

Ted Capener: Ha ha ha.....

Gordon B. Hinckley: And other things.

Ted Capener: Ya, ahhh I..........

Gordon B. Hinckley: And you get old, you get weak, you can’t do those things. Once we had a great time as we lived out in east mill creek. In the summer........

Ted Capener: Ya, ya.....

Gordon B. Hinckley: We had about 35 acres there and there was always plenty of work to do. My father’s program was to give us something to work at every morning until noon. We had to pull the weeds out of so many rows this side or the other. Then in the afternoon we could play. That made a pretty good day for young boys.

Ted Capener: Ya, ya.

Gordon B. Hinckley: And we learned to work and we learned to have a good time.

Ted Capener: You can do both, sure. I know you to be extremely well read. Up to the minute on all world events. Do you still have time to read and what do you read besides the scriptures?

Gordon B. Hinckley: Well I read the scriptures of coarse. I read the daily papers. I read the two Salt Lake papers. The Deseret News and the Tribune. I read the wall street journal, editorial page. The lead story. A well written newspaper. And I read news magazines, books. As I get time, but there isn’t a lot of time anymore to read.

Ted Capener: Ya.

Gordon B. Hinckley: I’m like the water table in Arizona, it’s being drawn out faster than it’s being replenished. And I have to work at that to replenish.

Ted Capener: Well you’ve always been current. You used to come to meetings with having read all the news magazines and you knew everything that was happening. Do you watch Television?

Gordon B. Hinckley: Oh no, not a lot.

Ted Capener: What do you think of Television? What do you think of modern day journalism? You wanted to be a journalist, in fact you are a journalist in ways I think and a great writer. When you started school at the university of Utah, you were going to go on and become a writer. My impression to be a journalist. And you’ve watched journalism closely. What’s your analysis of today’s media and journalism as a whole?

Gordon B. Hinckley: Journalists are bright, they’re very bright today, they are very able people. The thing I regret is the objectivity with which reporters once wrote news stories has in large measure become advocacy journalism. A thing which I deeply regret. There was a time when all advocacy was carried on the editorial pages. Now it’s throughout the paper.

Ted Capener: And also there has been a move to debunk or demystify our heroes. What do you think of that?

Gordon B. Hinckley: I think we’re all the losers for that. They were men, they were human. They made mistakes. I don’t doubt it for a minute. They had great qualities. They expressed themselves very well. They wrote great things, they did great things. They were people to look at and to emulate in their greatness. And the fact that they have become the subject of so many people that have tried to find fault with them to tear them down. To bring out all the warts. It seems to me has accomplished no good for anyone.

Ted Capener: But why has that come about, do you think?

Gordon B. Hinckley: Oh I don’t know, I think it’s a part of the times. As we live in a very irreverent age and some of that may be good but there isn’t much respect anymore it seems to me. To the degree that there once was and yet I repeat I think the world is getting better. I’m very optimistic about the world. I don’t think we’re deteriorating. I think we’re improving. Slowly but it’s happening. And we’re all the better for it.

Ted Capener: Uh, so on the one hand you’re saying that as far as the media is concerned we’re sensationalizing? But on the other hand as a whole, the culture, society and people are better than they ever have been?

Gordon B. Hinckley: I think so. Somebody would dispute me on that.....

Ted Capener: Well not me!

Gordon B. Hinckley: that’s my feeling!

Ted Capener: Ya.

Gordon B. Hinckley: I've read the hist...... read the history of the middle ages. Read of the torture, the disease, the peril through which people passed. The ignorance, the dark ages. Fits that time appropriately that description. We certainly live in a better time. We certainly do a little better than we did then in spite of all the cruelties that exist in the world. I think, generally speaking, more people are a little more kinder, a little more thoughtful. A lot of young people are not very civil. But the fact is that by and large this is a great time to be alive. I repeat that.

Ted Capener: I know and I appreciate it. I’m sure that You’re aware that we have about two or three minutes left. You read the other day that the research that indicated that troubled teens, that troubled children, uh people from the inner city if you will. Who go to church do better than those that don’t. That didn’t surprise you at all?

Gordon B. Hinckley: Didn’t surprise me a bit. Those who grew up in two parent homes likewise do better. There is something that comes of good stable family life. Something that’s wonderful. It builds stability in young people, it builds strength. It builds cohesiveness, it builds purpose. It builds a desire for achievement that is wonderful. You see it at the University. It stands out very clearly. We have large segments of our youth who are wasting their lives with drugs and other such things which will utterly destroy them unless they get hold of themselves. On the other hand I think we have the finest generation of young people that I know anything about at least. Who are educated, who are refined, who are ambitious, who are wonderful, who are unselfish, who reach out across the world to do good. And I see those young people and I have nothing but admiration. I don’t fear for the future when I see young people of that kind.

Ted Capener: I know when you were referring to the University, you were referring to students who are outstanding just as they are at BYU? When those two schools meet in the athletic field, who do you root for. Ha ha ha.

Gordon B. Hinckley: I wear a brown suit, ha ha ha.

Ted Capener: Ha, he wears a brown suit. that’s smart, that’s a smart thing to do. Now if you could recapture a few years of your youth. What would you like to get done that you have not yet gotten done?

Gordon B. Hinckley: I don’t know, I don’t look to the past. The past is behind me, I can’t change that.

Ted Capener: Ya, ya.

Gordon B. Hinckley: Look to the future.

Ted Capener: Ok, what do you have left to do?

Gordon B. Hinckley: I have a lot of things.

Ted Capener: Ya, I know.

Gordon B. Hinckley: I want to improve the world. My motto is, make bad men good and good men better. And get out and lift the world and try to; make a contribution. And give em courage and hope and faith to people. I think I’m part of a great success story. This church which is moving out across the world and changing the lives of people wherever it goes. We now have some 17 thousand plus wards in the church across the world. Local congregations. Little families of two, three, four hundred people. All trying to live up to certain ideals, it’s good. I’m hopeful, I’m optimistic. Life is good and Ted, it’s wonderful to be a part of it.

Ted Capener: Thank you very much for letting us visit with you, we hope you have a great Christmas.

Gordon B. Hinckley: Thank you, bless you.

Ted Capener: On behalf of the crew of Civic Dialog and our producer Colleen Casto. And everyone at KUED. We hope you have a great holiday season. I’m Ted Capener, good night